mercredi 21 novembre 2012
Notes au vol sur les entretiens - Alexandra & Neal
Notes (pour la plupart en anglais) prises au cours des entretiens avec les militant-e-s que nous avons rencontré-e-s: Moisis (ex-journaliste d'Elaftherotypia), Aris (militant de Kokkino, Syriza), Mihalis (avocat en droit des étrangers), Panagiotis (blogueur de Greek Crisis), Tassos & Andreas (OKDE-Spartakos, Antarsya), Flora (syndicaliste du secteur de l'énergie), Dimitra (féministe), des membres du Club Ouvrier, des militants d'OKDE-Spartakos et Maxismos (Synaspismos, Syriza). Ca donne un petit aperçu d'ensemble...
Moisis Litsis, ex-journalist Eleftherotypia
Greece is an experiment. The other countries will follow. The last packet (Memorandum III) destroys everything.
In the media sector there was already a crisis earlier due to classic problems in print and new media. Since 2007, ad revenues dropped, and now they've collapsed. People have no money to buy daily or even Sunday newspapers.
At the start of the crisis in 2008, consensus in Greek media: “the crisis is in Greece and there's no solution other than IMF measures”. This initial consensus doesn't hold anymore. Now Greece is seen as part of the global European crisis.
Eleftherotypia was left-independent newspaper, open to leftist views and critiques on subjects like debt, with Argentina as the example... It presented views that are more difficult to bring to tv stations. In big media in Greece, there's consensus. Even in the last elections many media bashed Syriza, saying “they're going to destroy the country”.
Eleftherotypia ceased publication in December 2011 after not being able to pay their journalists. They had 800 workers of which 250 were journalists. It was one of the biggest newspapers. Now it's a cooperative newspaper since november, "Efimerida ton syntakton" ("The journalist's newspaper").
Government repression against journalists is growing:
The journalist that published the Lagarde list is arrested in his studio, accused of publishing private names. Venizelos: “the first three names on the list are Jewish”.
More totalitarian aspects to life in Greece: policy brutality. Golden Dawn, hundreds of attacks. => We must build a broad antifascist movement. Greek society is going to be polarized.
Traditional parties collapse and the left grows. Syriza is a massive left. There is a danger that people will turn to GD if Syriza fails.
GD accepted in the media. Sky plays it hard: invited Michaloliakos.
Same could happen as in the 1930's in Germany. Bourgeois class could support GD to stop the rise of the left. We must take the threat very seriously.
The media says: “the left legalized violence” by antiparlementarian activism, like on National Day. They want to make equal left and right.
Trade union of journalists since 1918. Conservative. Junta. After 1980's more radicalized. Still corporatist. Lots of privileges. Until the crisis, bosses and workers got state money for social security, healthcare and pension funds. They don't want to be together with other workers, but strike for their own rights.
Aris, Kokkino (Syriza)
Syriza had a radical program until the May 2012 elections, where they went from 4,7 to 17%. Afterwards: specification of program 20 days before election June. Moved slightly to the right. Recapitalising banks with ECB.
With a transitional program we'll inevitably have a collusion with the EU. But Synaspismos has the illusion to reorganise the EU.
Since 2008, over the last 5 years 25% of GDP was destroyed. Social security was already weak, now no more.
Main focus of anger are the politicians. This is cultivated by the media. In indignation movement antipolitical positions. In that movement, down-square (left) and up-square (right).
KKE and Maoïsts: “Memorandum imposed from outside”. For common front with anti-imperialist patriots. Kokkino: Greek capitalism bankrupted in 2010. It was already in default. The only bourgeois solution was to sign a contract with the IMF. There is no other solution within the capitalist framework. No option to borrow from another source like China.
Syriza own bodies since 2009. Central secretary with representatives of every group. Main political directions defined by Synaspismos. Structure very vage: more alliance between different groups. Roadmap: end of April 2013 1st Congress Party Syriza. In December 2010 conference to vote for the transitional period into transforming in one single party. But many disagreements.
Main reason Syriza lost election was media: “if Syriza wins, we will leave euro”. Ambiguity of Syriza about euro. Synaspismos not this position: presenting themselves as savers of euro.
Syriza is targeted by bourgeoisie. Double target:
1. Smash Syriza
2. Pushing Syriza to adapt
Synaspismos moving to the right. Tsipras met secretly with Perez and Reichenbach (supervisor Greek program). Supervisors in every ministery. Syriza: “we don't recognize them”. But economists Syriza met Reichenbach. Build bridge with other side.
Greek policemen more than 50% GD. South Corean tourist arrested in Omonia and tortured. Police operation since August: Xenios Dias: Greek hospitality.
No one believed fascists were danger. “Will be transformed in parliamentary party”. Was position KKE and Synaspismos. Kokkino and anarchists: need of antifascist front. Now Syriza recognises need.
GD major influence in working class areas. Same areas as Syriza. Both struggling for influence in popular strata. Now decision in Syriza to build antifascist fronts. But try to avoid confrontation in the streets.
Media make equal far-right and far-left. Syriza doesn't want to be seen as left-margin of the spectrum. Only anarchists confrontation in streets. 2 weeks ago 15 people arrested in motorcycle patrol.
Not elections in trade unions for years. Elections coming up. Syriza gaining ground from PASOK. KKE still high.
Syriza in May elections votes from PASOK, in June from Antarsya and KKE.
Bourgeoisie in Greece discredited. Cannot convince Greek society. Prospect of Greek economy to go worse. Rely more and more on brutal violence.
Pre-revolutionary period as Trotsky described 1930's. One will prevail over other, no middle.
If Syriza would win elections, prospects open. Greek and European bourgeoisie cannot accept Syriza. Allende in Chile. Syriza should mobilize people in open class confrontation.
Mihalis, lawyer about migrant's rights, Antarsya
Media: system threathened by 2 extremes.
Not big participation in strikes.
Not exactly the same as in 1930's: for example not make front with PASOK.
Syriza took risk of going for “left government” today. Because not a way through workers struggle to overthrow from below. =>So, vote for Syriza is vote for someone to do the thing we couldn't do ourselves.
Syriza doesn't want to frighten moderate voters. Tsipras met Simon Peres.
KKE greatest links with working class. Problem that it couldn't combine tactic with stategy. KKE is a supernatural groupuscule.
Area of struggle is the nation-state. European 14N => need strategy. Change in worst striken countries, then change in other countries. In South-America Bolivarian Alternative.
Panagiotis Grigoriou, blog Greek Crisis
Les indignés étaient fascisants. Slogans faciles comme “brûler le parlement”. Mouvement naïf. KKE, Syriza jamais pu créer large mouvement apd indignés.
Grèce boue de l'UE. Réussi ici, zone franche.
Memorandum guerre contre monde du travail. 80% propriétaire de qqchose. 20% de la population pas directement touché. Argent ne circule pas: banquent ne prêtent pas. Jacques Sapir: comparable à Eltsine.
Emigration 100.000 à 300.000. Plus d'avenir ici. Déclic élections de juin. Syriza pourrait faire façe à crise humanitaire: filet de sécurité. Déjà ça enlève stress.
Gouvernement devrait dire non au memorandum: gouvernement De Gaullien pourrait le faire. Souveraineté: Argentine, Venezuela, Ecuador, Turquie, Russie non au FMI.
Il faut se défaire de l'UE et de la Troika. Traités démantèlent le social dans États-nations. UE faite pour cela. En Grèce, KKE et aisle gauche de Syriza pour sortie de l'UE. Direction Syriza va dans l'autre sens.
Lorsqu'on a cassé la sécurité, on est dans péril de vie.
On prépare climat pré-dictatorial: “état d'urgence pour protéger la démocratie”. Ils feront tout pour qu'il n'y ait pas d'élections.
KKE aurait pu commencer par un bou. Occasion historique perdu en juin.
Petites entreprises comme en Italie. Employés ét petits patrons au chômage. Et petits magasins. Plus facile d'organiser des luttes dans des grandes entreprises. Espagne plus avancé: des millions et société plus avancée.
Le capitalisme ne mourra pas tout seul. Faut résister mtnt qu'on a encore santé, éducation, culture.
Tassos & Andreas, OKDE-Spartakos (Antarsya)
Met Memorandum III voor 4e keer gesnoeid in pensioenen: welke regering gaat dit uitvoeren?
Syriza était le seul parti contre memorandum. Mais Syriza reste parti éclaté.
Fascistes tentent organiser groupes locales. Syriza tente groupes antifascistes.
Dispersion de la gauche facilite succès du fascisme.
L'État utilise de plus en plus des moyens autoritaires: chasser journalistes, Ministre démissionne pas après article Guardian,.. Très autoritaire parce que situation en train d'éclater.
Syriza n'a pas intégré gens qui luttaient. KKE est sectaire, mais grand parti de la classe ouvrière.
Attaques nazis dans quartiers. Synaspismos ont voulu organiser comités antifascistes.
Les nazis se présentent comme anti-systémique total, aussi contre les syndicats. Ouvrent locaux dans quartiers. Immigrés même et extrême-gauche riposte. Nazis sèment terreur sans que gens interviennent.
Lutte politique est plus importante que lutte dans la rue, mais il faut aussi lutte dans la rue. Manifs grandes, sauf le KKE.
Syriza veut être trop respectueux au système. Aube Dorée s'en fout de la politesse, bat des gens à la télé.
Syriza évolutif sur la dette. Dans Antarsya problème sur position sur l'Europe.
Pas que problème entre pays en Europe. Sortie de l'euro inéfficace.
Syndicats du secteur public vrais syndicats: electricité, communication. Mais dans grève magasins travaillent. Faible taux de syndicalisation. Bureaucraties syndicales. Faut que syndicat fasse l'appel pour grève générale, donc instrument important. Il y a plusieurs tentatives de coordination de syndicats de base. Dans télécommunication majorité de gauche dans syndicats. Aussi dans professeurs, hopitaux,... Il faut lancer une grève qui dure! Pas beaucoup de grandes entreprises en Grèce. Electricité. Syndicats PASOK vendu pas mal, compromis avec direction. Electricité ou transports pourraient bloquer économie. Mais en Grèce travail très flexible: travail interimaire, temporaire précaire.
Beaucoup d'entreprises ne payent plus. Sites archéologiques: gardiens des sites pas payés pendant plusieurs mois. Aciéries lutte symbolique. Mais nazis aussi sur le coup.
KKE critique UE, mais nazis plus crédibles: « faut chasser immigrés ».
Flora Papadede, trade-unionist in public sector, ANANE (Antarsya)
Against euro and EU.
Last week passed that wholo of public sector would go in a model as in East-Germany. Next week Memorandum III: wages and pensions. Situation dramatic in public sector: hospitals, schools, universities going private. Pay for everything that yesterday was free right. Special economic zones: to have no option than work as a slave. Official number unemployed: 1200000: 25%. Much more in reality because many little entreprises closed and many farmers. Small and medium farms closing every day. Because income devastating.
Agriculture: since 1981 into European market and Mediterranean Agricultural Program: strict quotas. Prices low for producers, high for consumers. Subsidies now cut off. Where to sell? And who to buy? People obliged to produce not for here, but what is demanded in EU. Food problem in Greece.
Electricity only in 1980's in every house. Now transmission and distribution separate companies. Public power corporation: estimated value 16 billion. Value in stock market: 600.000 euros. Base of whole economy. Big amount of money from public to private.
Trade unions accepted deregulation. Spoke about healthy competition and about how to save our company. Dead end. One of the biggest unions 2 years ago voted for the splitting of company in generation, transmission and distribution. Only answer today is nationalization.
Her salary reduced 50% in 2 years: 35% + lost 13th and 14th month.
People cannot afford electricity anymore. Unaffordable, even for industries.
Long strike in electricity in 2008: 19 days. Lost. Now situation totally different. IIIrd Memorandum affects everything: salaries, pensions, age of pensions, new taxes, sale public properties,... Cannot face it only with strike of electricity sector. Electricity union could play major role. Could forward movement of all other unions. Strike will not stop on Wednesday when Parliament votes pro. We will continue. We cannot do anything else. At the same time not easy. We need now general political strike. Government must fall and Troika must go out: issue of strike must be that. Not: “don't cut pension 10%”. We asked for biggest coordination with every union. Streets of Athens will be full next days.
Trade unions are for 80% in public sector. In private sector few unions. Union bureaucracies. Model social partners: they think this is trade unionism.
PAME. Difficult to describe. Scope was to form workers front. But took other way. Controls some very critical unions. And its members are true militants. Told truth about EU, privatizations,... But now for various reasons they cannot play the role that is needed. Yesterday we insisted to go on strike from Sunday. They agreed with syndicalist bureaucracy for day later. They don't want to coordinate with other currents in movement. “If you don't follow the KKE, what you're suffering is your choice”.
We made effort for coordination from below, for 1st level unions. 17 unions in Athens participate. To press the federation, to go to the workers. Coordination is the only solution. We have succeeded coordination from below. Athens crucial point for the country.
Elections every 3 years: 1st level, federations and ADEDY. Now elections for 1st level. PASOK is vanishing. PAME also not very well.
14N: critical point is in the national level to overthrow a government. You can have a victory on a national level. It is the basis of every right that the working class has gained. If 1 people says no, we're going out, it would have an effect.
Nazis great danger. Say nothing about EU. Only party that has announced nothing against come Merkel.
Incapability of the left to form a front to fight against the regime. Many people think about fascists, but are not yet fascists. People who lost any hope and feel betrayed by the right and the left. Syriza: vote for me in elections, but someone with no food cannot wait for elections. KKE: if you don't accept my socialism, I don't care about you. The masses have to see real things to happen. 2 years of struggle and no result. Life in ruins.
Fight against fascism is not only about refugees, but also about the transformation of Greek workers into Pakistan workers. Nazis go to employees.
Fascism is not only GD, but also the government. GD instrument. Germany of the 1930's. Left should unite Greek people in a broad front and open the way for revolution. 3 years now and not 1 victory.
GD is total enemy of unions, but they gain. Beginning to from fractions in unions. Not yet a mass movement. But Hamas model: gather food, find work for unemployed. They go to factories and say what the state and unions didn't do. They have money and open bureaus in every neighborhood of Athens. They exploit the fear of the people. When society doesn't believe in collective actions, save myself. Eat the other to survive.
Dimitra, feminist, OKDE-Spartakos (Antarsya)
Arrest of women accused of HIV-positive last year. Minister of the protection of citizens. « Immigrant women prostitutes bring HIV to Greek”. First days of May in pre-election period arrests. Doctors work with police. Is violation of private life. In prison in very bad conditions. Started now to let them go. Was thing in pre-election campaign: 2 PASOK who supported this were re-elected in Athens.
No sacrifice for euro. But no fight for Drachma.
Some priests in favor of GD. Official Church in moderate way against fascists. Had to say something against pogroms.
PASOK-government in the 1980's progressive radical: welfare state, women.
4-5 people own all media. Are also involved in other industries. Make publicity for politicians. Get things in return.
Incidents last week. Government tries to stop critic voices.
Gold mine: main investor controls media. => Nothing in the news about protests. Parliamentary questions not in mainstream media. No society in media.
Nazis mentioned as locals. “Against problems that the immigrants create”. “Self-defense”.
Pogroms in Athens right now. GD parliamentarians involved.
Health service disaster. Law: no new doctors. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot be treated in public hospital.
The only place that hires is the police. Dias and Delta come from special army forces. Nazis. Police stations that never arrest nazis.
60 nazi offices. Bourgeois turned to nazis between May and June election. Olympiakos nazi.
Political front or street front? You cannot let them kill people. KKE and Syriza do nothing.
Last month and few days: nazis find jobs. KKE for the first time on construction site: no to nazis.
GD creates social structure in areas.
Easy for media: “extremes are rising”. Difficult to fight with the nazis with such a media.
2006-7. Almost every university. Prevented change in constitution “higher education should be free”. Students in Greece very political. General assemblies. Participated in 2008 riots. Out of boards of universities through new law. First time that Parliament votes law and entire university community is against.
There was only one union: FEE. Doesn't work. Big part of left: general assemblies: EAK.
Nazis recruit youth and unemployed.
3-party government can collapse soon. Depends on developments this week and later. Occupations municipalities. Big class confrontation. For Antarsya new chance to intervene. Must organise rank-and-file-committees. Anticapitalist perspective important <=> Syriza & KKE. Syriza proposed to Antarsya after 1st election, but Syriza wants to renegotiate debt and memoranda. The rank-and-file of Syriza is in mass movement. Crucial for Antarsya to get involved in common front with Syriza supporters and KKE.
Imperialist analysis in many parties, even in Antarsya. NAR nationalist response to the crisis. Symbolic question of euro should not be that important. But in election campaigns about debt and euro. Capitalism organized on national level => overthrow Greek capitalism. We cannot win fight without support other countries. Same situation as in 1917. Movement has to spread. <=> Excellent organization European capital.
1. Garbage dump: Huge mobilization, struggle won by people against police and state.
2. Gold mine
3. Ex-airport Athens. Is going to be privatized and rebuilt.
Alliance between Greek and European bourgeoisie. Some sectors doing well like energy. Move of capital out of the country. With privatization sometimes no investors.
Bourgeois class split by contrasts. Can only think about memorandum strategy, but doesn't work. What will affected bourgeois class do? New party, or Syriza, or nazis?
Ecosocialism: give land to farmers for organic farming.
Marxismos, Synaspismos (Syriza)
Split from old group IMT in Greece. Opportunistic to PASOK in 2003-4. Congress to discuss tactic: Synaspismos and KKE. Because PASOK turn to the right. Split 2005. 30 comrades. First KKE. But expelled. 2009: Synaspismos. At that time big crisis. Main force is within youth Synaspismos: 5%. Now 70 members in 7 towns of Greece.
Campaign inside Syriza for revolutionary program. Only group within Syriza. Syriza reformist program. Are like church: moral. Other groups don't present alternative document. Only amendments.
For socialization means of production. In every big company committees of workers control. Left government must collaborate with these bodies. Step to planned economy.
24 days of general strike. Destroyed will of the workers to fight. Leaders of KKE and Syriza never dispute this tactic. Tsipras only asked 2 weeks ago fall of government. The solution is a well prepared general strike.
GD exaggeration. Rise because collapse bourgeois parties. People don't transform themselves to fascists. Protest vote. No initiative against the left: balance of forces. Police union support to workers movement.
Now we have to destroy their centers in common militias with migrants. In summer there were 2 big demonstrations of immigrants.
Bourgeois: not time for fascists at this stage. Main tactic bourgeoisie: bring Syriza to the right. Not so easy to do as with PASOK.
KKE in impasse. 40.000 + 10.000 members. Syriza close to 40.000.